popo_licious (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
popo_licious) wrote2008-08-04 08:53 pm
popo_licious) wrote2008-08-04 08:53 pm
Entry tags:
Fire Emblem 6/7 Plot Discrepancy (Spoilers)
A certain plot discrepancy between FE6 and FE7 has been bothering me for quite some time now, and I was wondering if those of you familiar with the games and storyline would be so kind as to post your opinions on the mater. I realize that most of you reading this are primarily interested in the Caelin Crew (Lyn, Kent, Sain, etc.) but I think I'll be able to provide enough background information on the issue at hand to help you folks form an answer. I’d like to have some feedback on this subject to help me with a piece I’m writing for the fandom. As I’m already going out on a limb with the plot, I want to be accurate elsewhere in the storyline to compensate.
Anyways, my question involves Fir from FE6 and how she was raised, or rather, who she was raised by. I think most of the discrepancy issues can be attributed to a mistranslation in FE7's ending, and possibly even some of FE6’s support text, but I don't quite feel comfortable leaving it at that without first talking it out.
Starting from the beginning, we have Bartre and Karla's ending text from the epilogue of FE7.
Based on what is presented in FE6, one can validate that yes, Karla died of illness shortly after her marriage to Bartre, and yes, Bartre was separated from his daughter--Fir--for some length of time. This is stated in various intertwined support conversations.
The discrepancy appears when Fir's uncle--Karel--comes into the picture, as well as the allusion to Bartre's supposed death. Addressing Bartre, we know he doesn't actually "join Karla" as he's present and accounted for in FE6, so... that's merely a mistranslation, or a way for NOA to make things more conclusive to the English speaking audience, most of whom were unaware of the events that transpired in FE6 when the game was released.
I can't however bring myself to also write off Fir’s interactions with Karel as entirely a mistranslation, because I feel that FE6 leaves things open-ended enough to support the idea that Fir could have been raised by him, at least in some fashion. I’m not claiming that I believe the FE7 translation, but it certainly raises a few questions.
When you use Fir to recruit Karel in FE6, he does mention that he hasn’t seen Fir “since she was a baby”, yet how would she be able to recognize him if that were completely true? Wouldn’t that entail that she had seen him sometime between her infancy and his time of recruitment? Furthermore, if she hadn’t seen him within that time frame, then perhaps she spent enough time with him as a young child that she gained some sort of impression of him and was able to recognize him through that.
However, none of these theories seem to be supported in the text presented in FE6. Karel tells Bartre that he visited Karla and her family once when Fir still fairly young, and after that, lost contact, so the idea of there being several meetings is void. (This also means that Bartre wouldn’t have been able to provide Fir with an accurate description of Karel, seeing as he changed his appearance considerably overtime without Bartre’s knowledge, nor would he be able to provide Fir with her uncle’s location.) Karel also says that he left without notice, which might imply that he didn’t want to be persuaded to stay over-long in their household, or feel tied down, which breaks apart the theory that he was around long enough to leave an impression on Fir.
Essentially, this leaves me with two problems. One, FE6 is filled with plot holes as to how on Earth Fir would be able to recognize Karel without having ever really met him, and two, this is made worse by mistranslation and ambiguity on the part of FE7, some of its text serving as fact and the rest fiction. What I'm guessing here is that something has been left out of the storyline, or perhaps too much plot was put into the situation to begin with, enough to create contradictory statements.
To add to the confusion, Bartre also had been separated from Fir for a long time, and claims to have never paid much attention to her as a child. When he reunites with her, he says, “You grew up to be a strong, confident young woman. However, that isn't thanks to me.” Does this mean that maybe Karel did have some sort of secret role in her upbringing? Considering that she’s just barely a young adult in the game, and that one’s childhood years are the most formative, I think there’s room to speculate that someone else may have helped mold her into the warrior we all know her to be. (Noah doesn't count because he enters the scene a little too late.) Also, I find it hard to believe that as a young girl, Fir would have set out on her own, found a sense of wisdom and idolization in her mother’s legacy, and manage to be a competent sword fighter--again, all on her own. Isn’t that a bit much for a girl (who would be around ten) to handle on her own?
After presenting all this, what I’d like is a little closure. If this entire mess had to be resolved in a manner that would appease the fandom, what would the solution be? What would the order of events be? I have a few theories—most of which are pretty half-baked—and am really interested in seeing what the rest of you have to say on the subject.
If you made it through all this dribble, than feel free to take a brownie on the way out. They’re by the comment button, down on the right. XD
Edit: Without spoiling too much, the story I'm working on is about post-FE7 Karel, so... this is all slightly important, seeing as Fir and Karla shaped most of his reformation. XD Let me know if I missed/overlooked anything key.
Anyways, my question involves Fir from FE6 and how she was raised, or rather, who she was raised by. I think most of the discrepancy issues can be attributed to a mistranslation in FE7's ending, and possibly even some of FE6’s support text, but I don't quite feel comfortable leaving it at that without first talking it out.
Starting from the beginning, we have Bartre and Karla's ending text from the epilogue of FE7.
"Karla and Bartre were reunited in Ostia, [and] during the battle, they became friends. That friendship deepened into love, and they were wed. Later, Karla died of illness. Bartre took their daughter to her uncle and joined Karla."
Based on what is presented in FE6, one can validate that yes, Karla died of illness shortly after her marriage to Bartre, and yes, Bartre was separated from his daughter--Fir--for some length of time. This is stated in various intertwined support conversations.
The discrepancy appears when Fir's uncle--Karel--comes into the picture, as well as the allusion to Bartre's supposed death. Addressing Bartre, we know he doesn't actually "join Karla" as he's present and accounted for in FE6, so... that's merely a mistranslation, or a way for NOA to make things more conclusive to the English speaking audience, most of whom were unaware of the events that transpired in FE6 when the game was released.
I can't however bring myself to also write off Fir’s interactions with Karel as entirely a mistranslation, because I feel that FE6 leaves things open-ended enough to support the idea that Fir could have been raised by him, at least in some fashion. I’m not claiming that I believe the FE7 translation, but it certainly raises a few questions.
When you use Fir to recruit Karel in FE6, he does mention that he hasn’t seen Fir “since she was a baby”, yet how would she be able to recognize him if that were completely true? Wouldn’t that entail that she had seen him sometime between her infancy and his time of recruitment? Furthermore, if she hadn’t seen him within that time frame, then perhaps she spent enough time with him as a young child that she gained some sort of impression of him and was able to recognize him through that.
However, none of these theories seem to be supported in the text presented in FE6. Karel tells Bartre that he visited Karla and her family once when Fir still fairly young, and after that, lost contact, so the idea of there being several meetings is void. (This also means that Bartre wouldn’t have been able to provide Fir with an accurate description of Karel, seeing as he changed his appearance considerably overtime without Bartre’s knowledge, nor would he be able to provide Fir with her uncle’s location.) Karel also says that he left without notice, which might imply that he didn’t want to be persuaded to stay over-long in their household, or feel tied down, which breaks apart the theory that he was around long enough to leave an impression on Fir.
Essentially, this leaves me with two problems. One, FE6 is filled with plot holes as to how on Earth Fir would be able to recognize Karel without having ever really met him, and two, this is made worse by mistranslation and ambiguity on the part of FE7, some of its text serving as fact and the rest fiction. What I'm guessing here is that something has been left out of the storyline, or perhaps too much plot was put into the situation to begin with, enough to create contradictory statements.
To add to the confusion, Bartre also had been separated from Fir for a long time, and claims to have never paid much attention to her as a child. When he reunites with her, he says, “You grew up to be a strong, confident young woman. However, that isn't thanks to me.” Does this mean that maybe Karel did have some sort of secret role in her upbringing? Considering that she’s just barely a young adult in the game, and that one’s childhood years are the most formative, I think there’s room to speculate that someone else may have helped mold her into the warrior we all know her to be. (Noah doesn't count because he enters the scene a little too late.) Also, I find it hard to believe that as a young girl, Fir would have set out on her own, found a sense of wisdom and idolization in her mother’s legacy, and manage to be a competent sword fighter--again, all on her own. Isn’t that a bit much for a girl (who would be around ten) to handle on her own?
After presenting all this, what I’d like is a little closure. If this entire mess had to be resolved in a manner that would appease the fandom, what would the solution be? What would the order of events be? I have a few theories—most of which are pretty half-baked—and am really interested in seeing what the rest of you have to say on the subject.
If you made it through all this dribble, than feel free to take a brownie on the way out. They’re by the comment button, down on the right. XD
Edit: Without spoiling too much, the story I'm working on is about post-FE7 Karel, so... this is all slightly important, seeing as Fir and Karla shaped most of his reformation. XD Let me know if I missed/overlooked anything key.
no subject
At first glance, though, I'm thinking perhaps he's using the term "since she was a baby" very loosly, but then again... Hmm... This is worse than the time loop in the original Final Fantasy!... Well, okay not really.
no subject
Anyways, here's Fir's page (http://eaichu250.superbusnet.com/feartwork/FE6_OA/Fir.jpg) in the artbook. If you were curious about her specific age, it doesn't give one. (She's somewhere between 10 and 19, essentially.) If you need any other pages, BAM! (http://eaichu250.superbusnet.com/feartwork/fe6officialartwork.php)
I was also thinking that he might not have meant "baby" in the literal sense, but Fir couldn't have been too old, otherwise Karel would have probably know about his sister's death directly. (Which he doesn't.)
no subject
All Karel has to know is who Fir is, and maybe how they knew each other(but apparently she already knew or had been told that information when she was older); and that is all the information Karel needs to remember and be like "Oh, the last time I saw Fir was when she was a baby."
Although it seems most likely that this story just has a ton of plot holes, it could loosely be put together, but it would REALLY be a stretch. Again, I'm not familier with the story so I could be completely wrong(and my theory is quite a stretch), but here's how I could see it working:
When Karel visits Fir and the family when Fir was "fairly young" Karel could have shown up and been enough of a figure to be someone Fir wanted to idolize and grow up to be as. And as if that wasn't enough, I'm sure the rest of the people living with Fir could have told her all the stories they knew about Karel while he was living with them before he left and lost contact, to further push Fir wanting be the the Warrior Karel was/is.
The part about Bartre telling Fir about Karel could have been confusing because it seems that FE7 has "flashbacks" with things that happened in FE6 and it's possible that Bartre had seen Karel again in some undocumented event(or, if Karel hadn't changed his location since the last time Bartre saw him that would still work, but it wouldn't explain the accurate description, or it could even just be explained in a future game). I know that it being undocumented sounds hard to believe, but I think it happens a bit more in video games then you think. And I'm sorry to go off into a Sonic Adventure tangent, but consider this: Knuckles is not guarding his home and floating Island "Angel Island" for a moment. It is floating due to a large crystal on the island. While Knuckles is gone, the crystal is shattered, and the island comes crashing down into the water. Even after you complete everyones story in the entire game, it is NEVER explained how the crystal is shattered. However people tried to make assumptions and put 2 and 2 together. In E-102's story, there is a large part where his has no involvement in the story at all between the time when the crystal was broken. Then someone discovered, that if you beat E-102's story, and watch the credits in it's entirety(which lasts 5+ minutes) they show random pictures of him throughout the story. But there is one, just stuck in there out of the blue, of E-102 standing on Shadow Island infront of the crystal shattered in pieces. So it makes you wonder, was it just a secret? Did the devolopers want you to figure it out? Or did they just decided not to document it at all thinking you could live without it? Or was it just genuinly a plot hole mistake? Or was it just a random picture that has nothing to do with the game at all? There are so many possibilitys it's hard to know how Bartre was able to tell Fir anything at all.
But let me know if you think any of the 3 sepereate theorys I came up with make sence to you, cause even I am a little interested now XD
no subject
Having said that, I left a lot of common knowledge about the storyline out of my entry in order to spare those who already have a handle on the details. The most important thing that I left out--because if you've played these games, you'd know this--is that FE7 is actually a prequel to FE6, which means that it would be impossible for FE7 to have the "flashbacks" you mentioned, because there would be nothing to go back to. ;D There's also the issue of the characters, personalities, and what happened over the twenty-year gap that supposedly occurred between the two games. It's too much for me to go into, unfortunately, but I thank you for giving this a shot. >w<
no subject
I guess I shouldn't have assumed that the games would be in chronological order. :P
no subject
no subject
J/K
no subject
no subject
Lol
I'm assuming this is all Fire Emblem? lol
Ike > Roy (prepare to be shot)
no subject
As for the last comment... I HOPE YOUR EYES BURN! XD (http://cuddle-meee.deviantart.com/art/Nowhere-I-d-Rather-Be-90351438)
no subject
I hate you.
SOOO Ghey.
More Like:
Roy
Ike
wait for the joke to arise
no subject
RICK ROLLED AGAIN
Lol, I can't believe you DID IT AGAIN, that's twice now isn't it?
I swear I think you've got him Favorit'd/bookmarked on your browser under :
"What a Hottie/For Andrew"
Lol
Re: RICK ROLLED AGAIN
Re: RICK ROLLED AGAIN